Wing Training 11/02/16

ARC's regular wing training sessions are discussed here.

Focus of Wing Training 11/02/16

Poll ended at Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:08 pm

CZ & SOP practice
0
No votes
RES & SOP practice
2
40%
Wing basics
1
20%
ARC faction operations
0
No votes
Astrobatics / Formation Flying
1
20%
Level Playing Field combat training
0
No votes
Escort/Protection exercise
1
20%
Interdiction training
0
No votes
Ground training (Horizons required)
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 5
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Sealurk
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Re: Wing Training 11/02/16

Postby Sealurk » Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:00 am

Ship-specific tactics and positions would be a very useful thing to practice. I think, as I've said to a few people this week, we all really need to get better at close manoeuvring in combat and remaining aware of our wingmen's positions to avoid collisions, flying into each other's line of sight and actually hitting each other in combat.

Dayrth's tactic is sound. It made a big difference - for example, my FAS has fixed weapons due to poor hardpoint placement for gimballed weapons, good manoeuvrability and can soak up damage. Because of all this, and because it can ram a target so effectively, I've found it works best when I keep it close to the target to deliver the most damage - though I think I've kept it rather too close at times and blocked the target. Vultures would work well in this situation too, since they have the agility to keep sub-systems targeted.

The big thing I've discovered during the last week is the weakness of big ships to small ships. We were munching through high value targets with relative ease - hell, we took on four Clippers and a Python with barely a scratch, but a wing of five Vipers had us running for the station. Turreted and gimballed weapons aren't always enough, and taking out Vipers and Eagles with fixed weapons is too much hassle.
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Frank
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Re: Wing Training 11/02/16

Postby Frank » Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:19 am

Sounds like a good strategy. Seeing as I've got multi-cannons I'll be in hanging back group. They are effective over a greater distance, and work better once shields go down as well.

Where are we fighting? I've been so focussed on the CG I've not been paying attention to anything else. Is the battle still going on in Eranin?
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Re: Wing Training 11/02/16

Postby Sealurk » Thu Feb 11, 2016 7:51 pm

A productive and useful night. We learned a few things:

  • Surprisingly, nav-lock does not toggle - to un-nav-lock you must first untarget
  • Nav-lock can only be achieved if both commanders are in the same state, i.e. both in supercruise or both in normal space
  • Only one person in a wing needs a KWS for everybody to benefit, which means for wing operations some commanders will be able to free up a utility mount for point defence, chaff, shield booster etc.
  • Four railguns will wreck pretty much any ship you can think of in very short order... but they run out of ammunition quickly as well
  • The Code NPCs are mostly confined to Sidewinders, but do did have at least two Anacondas
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Re: Wing Training 11/02/16

Postby Frank » Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:44 pm

...and we also learnt that it takes a long time for 99% to click over to 100% <grin>
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Re: Wing Training 11/02/16

Postby Dayrth » Fri Feb 12, 2016 6:48 am

A very long time...

I hung around for a bit when you guys left and the targets got better. Several Pythons and a couple of Anacondas, but STILL at 99%. Maybe over the weekend. :roll:
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Re: Wing Training 11/02/16

Postby Frank » Fri Feb 12, 2016 7:54 am

I took my party poppers back to the shop. It would've been nice to fire them off for you, but I can't waste valuable real estate on my hardpoints on something as frivolous as a chaff launcher ;)

About that finding..
"Nav-lock can only be achieved if both commanders are in the same state, i.e. both in supercruise or both in normal space"

The Nav-lock key binding doesn't work if you can't see the wingmate you're trying to Nav-lock onto. But it's possible to set Nav-lock for someone that's been interdicted back into normal space by using the menu options.

Something we need to try is daisy-chaining Nav-Locks so that everyone has someone Nav-locked on them. It would require a little bit of a conversation over the Voice Attack, and some nifty formation flying in Supercruise to ensure all the squares remain blue, but it might mean that everyone gets pulled into the same patch of normal space when someone interdicts one of us.
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Re: Wing Training 11/02/16

Postby Dayrth » Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:38 am

Frank wrote:Something we need to try is daisy-chaining Nav-Locks so that everyone has someone Nav-locked on them. It would require a little bit of a conversation over the Voice Attack, and some nifty formation flying in Supercruise to ensure all the squares remain blue, but it might mean that everyone gets pulled into the same patch of normal space when someone interdicts one of us.


Interesting Idea. If A is locked to B and B is locked to C and C is locked to A

This will either cause

1. all to drop when anyone is interdicted

or

2. the interdicted commander to jump back out

or

3. some strange combination that leaves every one in the wrong place :D
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Re: Wing Training 11/02/16

Postby Sealurk » Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:18 am

What happens if you're nav-locked to each other is that nobody goes anywhere, not meaningfully anyway.

Example: Frank and I are in a RES. I am nav-locked to Frank; Frank is nav-locked to me. I need to get out of the RES but Frank is staying. Once I'm no longer mass locked I charge drive and... drop straight back into the RES within range of Frank. The same thing would happen the other way too.

Adding one or more commanders to this is unlikely to make a difference. Nav-lock, I think, is intended to only be used by the wing on one commander - when Vince, Luftal and I did our wing trading they both nav-locked onto me because I had the shortest jump range.

That leads me to one thing that may be worth testing, something I mentioned yesterday - does route planning while in a wing account for the jump ranges of the different ships? We did it manually last time, but maybe there's an automatic component that ensures all ships can jump together by plotting a route that the ship with the lowest jump range can follow, regardless of who plots it.
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Re: Wing Training 11/02/16

Postby Frank » Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:12 am

Whether winging up affects the star nav's jump range is something we have to remember to investigate. I've done a couple of the Hutton Tracker runs. The consensus there was that the ship with the smallest jump range should be the one that navigates to the destination.
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Re: Wing Training 11/02/16

Postby Frank » Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:13 am

Dayrth wrote:
Frank wrote:Something we need to try is daisy-chaining Nav-Locks so that everyone has someone Nav-locked on them. It would require a little bit of a conversation over the Voice Attack, and some nifty formation flying in Supercruise to ensure all the squares remain blue, but it might mean that everyone gets pulled into the same patch of normal space when someone interdicts one of us.


Interesting Idea. If A is locked to B and B is locked to C and C is locked to A

This will either cause

1. all to drop when anyone is interdicted

or

2. the interdicted commander to jump back out

or

3. some strange combination that leaves every one in the wrong place :D


We end up with a confused pirate as part of our wing :)

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