Wing Training - It's better discussing it here and not when a fleet of Anacondas is bearing on us

ARC's regular wing training sessions are discussed here.
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Frank
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Wing Training - It's better discussing it here and not when a fleet of Anacondas is bearing on us

Postby Frank » Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:37 am

It was fun winging up with Luftal and Dayrth earlier. Luftal mentioned he'd like us to start wing training again. I think that's a great idea. I'd also like to discuss something Sealurk said as well about how we should be thinking about specialised roles within Wings.

We should have pre-arranged time when it's convenient for everyone to meet up. Thursday evening was the time we used to have it. I don't know if that's still okay with everyone. As long as it's mentioned early enough, it doesn't matter if the time of the training moves about a bit. If we announce that we're having wing training on the "Call to Arms" thread we'd better make it clear that it is a general muck about and a learning experience for everyone involved.

I reckon the next time we get together we should check to see if specialisation does make a difference within a wing. I'm not sure of a method to determine the efficiency of different tactics. We might just have to.. wing it <sorry>. I'd like to find out the best weapons to use; all get into Sidewinders again but this time with different weapons. The tactic I'd like to try out is that the pilot in the fastest turning ship has lasers fitted and they always pick the target that everyone goes after. It may take an extra few seconds for the rest of the wing to draw a bead but the first task is to drop the enemy's shield with lasers anyway.

Please. I really want your opinions on this.
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Re: Wing Training - It's better discussing it here and not when a fleet of Anacondas is bearing on us

Postby Dayrth » Thu Jan 14, 2016 7:17 am

Thursday is still good for me.
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Re: Wing Training - It's better discussing it here and not when a fleet of Anacondas is bearing on us

Postby smugglyquick » Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:49 am

I wont be available this Thurs due to work commitments.
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Re: Wing Training - It's better discussing it here and not when a fleet of Anacondas is bearing on us

Postby Sealurk » Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:06 am

Thursday's still fine for me - when I remember! Leaving a post-it note for tonight just to be safe. Also, I got bored so I wrote the below. Let me know what you think (it's not as daunting as it looks - it's mostly common sense and just to make sure we're all on the same page - once we've done this or something like it a few times, it'll be second nature). The idea is not to suck the fun out of things but just to make us more effective and efficient, however if it makes things a bit too dull and predictable we can start over.

The section headers are the most important, the bullet points are just for extra detail and clarity.

Proposal for ARC Wing SOP:

Designate station and time
  • For example 'Lunan Platform, 6pm GMT'.
  • The designated station or outpost is the wing's 'respite', i.e. the station that will be used for resupply and repair.
  • Commanders should assemble outside the station once they have done everything they need, i.e. refuel, restock, repair.
  • All commanders should ensure they are properly outfitted, i.e. chaff/point defence for CZs, Kill Warrant Scanners for RESs, FSD interdictors for undermining etc.
  • All commanders should activate all wing beacons for clarity.

Designate Point Man
  • By default this is typically the commander with the lightest and most manoeuvrable ship heaviest and least manoeuvrable ship [Dayrth's suggestion].
  • Alternatively the Point Man could instead be the commander with the best voice comms.
  • Alternatively, commanders can volunteer or vote to be the Point Man.
  • Currently sensors make little difference but this may change - commander with best sensors may also be designated Point Man, but this is unlikely.
  • All commanders ensure they can lock on to the Point Man's targets - this can be tested by simply having the Point Man target any ship in the vicinity of the station and checking that all commanders have locked on.
  • It may be worth determining the "line of succession", i.e. if Point Man leaves the wing, determine who will be the next Point Man.

Comm Check
  • All commanders should test comms as it is likely that mix of text and verbal will be used.
  • Ensure all commanders can hear verbal comms even if they cannot respond.
  • If commanders cannot hear verbal comms, all commanders should switch to text instead for clarity.
  • It is advisable that all commanders ensure their text comms are set to 'Wing' as standard to avoid needing to cycle in battle.

Travel to target location
  • All commanders Nav-Lock on to Point Man.
  • If undermining, all commanders must retain Nav-Lock on Point Man.
  • If fighting in a CZ or RES, all commanders must remove Nav-Lock once CZ / RES entered to avoid unnecessary jumps.

Point Man selects targets
  • Target selection is entirely up to the Point Man. His say goes, no matter what. However, it is advisable the Point Man follows some guidelines.
  • Generally, target selection may entail eliminating the larger opponents first even if this requires travelling around the CZ or RES - targets are listed by mass under Contacts tab.
  • In undermining, Point Man should only target valid PowerPlay targets. Undermining targets all yield same merits, so Point Man should factor in distance, difficulty and wing size.

Wing targets Point Man's targets
  • If in RES, all commanders should verbally or visually declare "Scanned" (or "S") once they have K-Scanned the designated target - firing before all commanders have declared "Scanned" may cause target to deploy chaff, interrupting scans.
  • Be aware that it may take different commanders different amounts of time to K-Scan the target due to distance, speed and grade of scanner - be accomodating and patient.
  • If a commander elects not to use a Kill Warrant Scanner to increase his bounty he must still declare "Scanned" or alternatively "Ready".
  • It is advisable that commanders target sub-systems for faster kills - by default this is the power plant, however more experienced wings may elect to have different commanders target different systems.
  • In a RES all commanders may wish to K-Scan all enemy wing members to avoid having to do so in the heat of battle - only declare "Scanned" once whole wing is K-Scanned.
  • On occasion, and always by prior agreement, it may be preferable or advisable for different wing members to target different ships, i.e. eliminating escorts during interdictions or simultaneously engaging an entire wing if enemy consists of multiple large, dangerous ships.
  • If targeting different ships it may be desirable for all commanders to attempt to hit all targets several times to share in payout, however this is not essential.

Engage target
  • Point Man always fires the first shot, no exceptions.
  • Once the Point Man opens fire on the target, that is the signal for the whole wing to open fire.
  • Wing continues engaging until target destroyed, however be aware the Point Man may break off early to select next target.
  • Keep an eye on each wingman's shields and hull - it is easy to lose track in the heat of battle. Wingmen should particularly look out for the Point Man who will be more focused on finding a target and will usually be in the most vulnerable ship present.

Leaving/rejoining the wing
  • If commanders need to rearm, repair, refuel, recharge or simply relax they should declare "Breaking off" or "B". Commander does not need to exit the wing, and does not necessarily need to head to the station but they should leave the current combat location to avoid confusion and accidental ship destruction.
  • Once returned to the wing's location, commander should declare "Re-engaging" or "R" to let wing know he is ready for battle again.
  • If combat already underway against wanted target, commander can K-Scan but must be aware that this is not guaranteed to work once combat has been initiated. It is usually preferable to simply engage the target and pick up usual scanning routine from the next target onwards.
  • If leaving the wing permanently, commanders should declare "Leaving" or "L".
  • If possible, all commanders should try to break off and head to station when one declares they are leaving. This allows a breather, time to say customary farewells and also for re-evaluation of the wing.
  • During re-evaluation remaining commanders may decide to change tack and head to a different site; as such, the wing should be dissolved and reconstituted, starting from the beginning of the guidelines, i.e. designating Point Man, checking comms, nav-locking etc.
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Re: Wing Training - It's better discussing it here and not when a fleet of Anacondas is bearing on us

Postby Dayrth » Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:33 pm

As you say, all pretty much common sense. I would disagree with one thing though:
Designate Point Man
By default this is typically the commander with the lightest and most manoeuvrable ship.


I think the point man should be the one with the largest (least manoeuvrable ship). Quicker for everyone else to form up on him than for him to form up on a smaller ship.
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Re: Wing Training - It's better discussing it here and not when a fleet of Anacondas is bearing on us

Postby Frank » Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:03 pm

Combat Zones simplify a lot of what Sealurk is saying. If it's red, kill it.

The point man idea still works well though even in this simplifies environment. But whoever the pointman is, they will have to remember that they can't break target lock on their chosen enemy. I know that most people do that to allow their gimballed weapons to hit chaffing ships. I'm too lazy for that and so I just have a fixed laser that just shoots straight all the time,

Boy! were those Anacondas toppling like ninepins. I'm sure that's because we were all targeting the same subsystem, the power plant. I'm not sure if different subsystems are more vulnerable for different ships, but I think for simplicity's sake it's probably better if we always go for the power plant regardless of ship.

Are we all going to meet up again for Thursday? I reckon we should wing up for something a little more lucrative.. a high risk extraction zone. It will add that extra complexity of kill scanners.
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Re: Wing Training - It's better discussing it here and not when a fleet of Anacondas is bearing on us

Postby Sealurk » Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:08 pm

I'm up for Thursday, and I'd love to see how the ARC Wing SOP works in a RES. Somehow I suspect it might prove a little trickier, or at least different...

Regarding target lock, I think that would only apply for a few seconds while the rest of the wing lock on to the same target (something I am going to have to make a VA macro for, as well as targeting the power plant - having to constantly release the throttle and reach across was getting a tad awkward by the end of the night). After that it doesn't matter because they're all independently locked on, so once you see the symbols indicating wing lock on your target you can release lock if need be.
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Re: Wing Training - It's better discussing it here and not when a fleet of Anacondas is bearing on us

Postby Frank » Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:08 pm

That sounds reasonable as long as the point man waits until all his wingmates have selected the correct target. I was using the "target wingman's target" button but there were quite a few times when the point man had already unlocked to allow shooting through chaff.

It might also be a good idea for all of us to get teamspeak sorted out for Thursday as well. I'd really much prefer it if we could use Frontier's comms. I don't want anybody thinking about joining us put off by us using teamspeak. But the in-built system it is just way too clunky.
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Re: Wing Training - It's better discussing it here and not when a fleet of Anacondas is bearing on us

Postby Dayrth » Fri Jan 15, 2016 10:05 am

I was targeting you Frank (as point man) then flying on your wing (as best i could), until you opened fire. then selected your target. This seemed to work quite well.
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Re: Wing Training - It's better discussing it here and not when a fleet of Anacondas is bearing on us

Postby smugglyquick » Fri Jan 15, 2016 3:57 pm

Re: Engage Target.

It may be prudent to have the option of a Back Marker in a wing. They would in essence finish off the immediate target, whilst the Point Man selects the next target and the other wing members attack that.

Two or three onto a new target should bring it's shields down, and by that time, the Back Marker should be onto it's case also.

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